Take it if you want it, one day I'll get around to taking it to the metal recyclers.
Free: Suzuki Hatch (Suit wrecking)
I've got a Hatch rolling shell in the backyard that anyone is welcome to take if they want it. Body is straight, has no engine/box/dashboard.
Take it if you want it, one day I'll get around to taking it to the metal recyclers.
Take it if you want it, one day I'll get around to taking it to the metal recyclers.
F8B EFI turbo - Three pots and a snail.
Hatch is GOOOONE... to that great wrecking yard in the sky. 
F8B EFI turbo - Three pots and a snail.
I made sure I stripped anything of any use to my MightyBoy though. 
Will be interesting to see what difference the rear springs make.
Will be interesting to see what difference the rear springs make.
F8B EFI turbo - Three pots and a snail.
After I sort out the mess of other problems - so anytime between now and Christmas. 
F8B EFI turbo - Three pots and a snail.
Fair enough.
I really need to do something about the rear traction of my lil' bus. It comes around way too early now that I have my new tyres on. Oddly enough the fronts have brilliant traction (I guess adding to my probs at the rear). I cant, under any situation yet (wet or dry) get it to understeer.
- I think the rear may need to be tightened up to stop the rear axle from floating, and lifting in corners? 
I really need to do something about the rear traction of my lil' bus. It comes around way too early now that I have my new tyres on. Oddly enough the fronts have brilliant traction (I guess adding to my probs at the rear). I cant, under any situation yet (wet or dry) get it to understeer.
- I think the rear may need to be tightened up to stop the rear axle from floating, and lifting in corners? 
you want it to stop doing that? 
what pressure in the rear tyres, could let some out so it sits down on the tyre a bit more under load instead of just sliding?
what pressure in the rear tyres, could let some out so it sits down on the tyre a bit more under load instead of just sliding?
I dont really want to give up any front end grip, but I suspect I'll have to... - maybe cut back on the neg camber
As for the rear, I definately want to get that sorted.
In the dry I can corner very hard right up to about 70kph when the rear lifts & then starts to step out (with throttle wide open). The rear is much more unstable when cornering under brakes of course. Not well balanced at all.
I suspect sway bars will make a big difference. Possibly a panhard bar?
I'd be curious to know if the flex in the hatch leafs is any less?
Panhard rod will only work on a coil suspension setup sorry mate. It is designed to prevent the axle walking sideways under load, and leaf spring shackle setup already has that covered.
You will find that the problem with the MB lifting rear wheels is due to the nose dipping under cornering load. When you think about it, the front can operate independently, but the rear relies on the not only what one side is doing, but the front to a certain degree as well.
Front left tucks down, rear right ends up in the air.
To be honest the rear swaybar on mine really didn't make much difference, thats why I'm looking at the Hatch rear springs for the solution. I reckon fitting them, along with an extra front swaybar (which you can make quite easily) will net excellent results.
You will find that the problem with the MB lifting rear wheels is due to the nose dipping under cornering load. When you think about it, the front can operate independently, but the rear relies on the not only what one side is doing, but the front to a certain degree as well.
Front left tucks down, rear right ends up in the air.
To be honest the rear swaybar on mine really didn't make much difference, thats why I'm looking at the Hatch rear springs for the solution. I reckon fitting them, along with an extra front swaybar (which you can make quite easily) will net excellent results.
F8B EFI turbo - Three pots and a snail.
I'm definately not an expert with regards to suspension - I didn't even know about panhard rods till Peter (almost a mini) mentioned it to me a while ago. What he said seemed to make a fair bit of sense to me. After all, the only support the rear axle has is through the leaf springs. - Surely there is lateral movement caused by flexing of the leaf and also the bushes the leafs mount on to? The parabolic leaf is pretty flimsy at the ends...
I have a spare sway bar ready to go for the front, but dont really want to blow $80 on 'd' shackles & bushes as I am considering getting an entirly new sway bar made up in the future. - I would prefer a single beafy unit as apposed to the piggy back setup. I'd say that's going to be quite expensive to manufacture though.
Brayden, What sort of alignment are you running on your ute?
When I had mine done the guy put +1° (? - standard) toe out, but that didn't take into consideration that the car has been lowered. I get the feeling it should be dead straight ahead now it has negitive camber on it???
I have a spare sway bar ready to go for the front, but dont really want to blow $80 on 'd' shackles & bushes as I am considering getting an entirly new sway bar made up in the future. - I would prefer a single beafy unit as apposed to the piggy back setup. I'd say that's going to be quite expensive to manufacture though.
Brayden, What sort of alignment are you running on your ute?
When I had mine done the guy put +1° (? - standard) toe out, but that didn't take into consideration that the car has been lowered. I get the feeling it should be dead straight ahead now it has negitive camber on it???
Toe "in" will affect the way the car turns in, making the steering sharper. Toe "out" will cause the car to track badly in a straight line and understeer in corners.
The alignment on my ute is 1° toe in and 1° negative camber owing to it being lowered. It was at 2° toe in however that was noticeably too much when cornering.
Mind you those figures will need to be revised once the new lo-pro's are fitted and the handling dynamics change again.
As for the front swaybar, there is one reason that the additional swaybar is used as opposed to making the standard one thicker, and that is because the connection to the lower control arms would not allow a thicker bar to make it through the mount with rubber/nolothane bushes.
I'm sure there is another technical reason for it too, but I failed to enquire as to what that would be - all I know is that the extra bar made a noticable difference to turn in, and gave a strong tendency to oversteer. The later fitment of the rear bar did very little to curb the problem, but did make the effect more predictable. Prior to fitting you would turn in to a certain point and the rear would just snap around, now it is more controlled, the rear end breaking traction happens more gradually to a point, but still snaps eventually.
Dave tried the thicker Alto front bar on his ute, but it wreaked havoc on his alignment.
With regard to the panhard rod, (adjustable or solid) in an attempt to calm lateral movement they actually cause some. The rod attaches to the body on one side of the car, and the other end attaches to the axle on opposite side. Now given that this forms a triangle (axle - panhard rod - suspension height) with the panhard rod forming the longest side, when the suspension compresses, the axle moves upward while the panhard rod (being longer than the axle) forces it to move sideways away from the point of chassis attachment. This movement can be anywhere up to 20mm or so. In a leaf spring setup (assuming the bushes are in good condition) you would never see that degree of lateral movement.
The alignment on my ute is 1° toe in and 1° negative camber owing to it being lowered. It was at 2° toe in however that was noticeably too much when cornering.
Mind you those figures will need to be revised once the new lo-pro's are fitted and the handling dynamics change again.
As for the front swaybar, there is one reason that the additional swaybar is used as opposed to making the standard one thicker, and that is because the connection to the lower control arms would not allow a thicker bar to make it through the mount with rubber/nolothane bushes.
I'm sure there is another technical reason for it too, but I failed to enquire as to what that would be - all I know is that the extra bar made a noticable difference to turn in, and gave a strong tendency to oversteer. The later fitment of the rear bar did very little to curb the problem, but did make the effect more predictable. Prior to fitting you would turn in to a certain point and the rear would just snap around, now it is more controlled, the rear end breaking traction happens more gradually to a point, but still snaps eventually.
Dave tried the thicker Alto front bar on his ute, but it wreaked havoc on his alignment.
With regard to the panhard rod, (adjustable or solid) in an attempt to calm lateral movement they actually cause some. The rod attaches to the body on one side of the car, and the other end attaches to the axle on opposite side. Now given that this forms a triangle (axle - panhard rod - suspension height) with the panhard rod forming the longest side, when the suspension compresses, the axle moves upward while the panhard rod (being longer than the axle) forces it to move sideways away from the point of chassis attachment. This movement can be anywhere up to 20mm or so. In a leaf spring setup (assuming the bushes are in good condition) you would never see that degree of lateral movement.
F8B EFI turbo - Three pots and a snail.
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pullbackandgo
- Posts: 89
- Joined: Tue May 11, 2004 2:23 am
- Location: Newcastle
From personal experience with my hatch I don't think the leafs off a hatch will make much of a difference... Mine is all over the place as soon as I hit a bump coming into a corner! It sort of surges and then grabs again, very unpredictable and could lead you into a guardrail without too much persuasion... And I still get a fair bit of back end swing-out, but that could be cause of my bald left tyre! Going around roundabouts is fun sometimes!! 
Thats just my experience with the hatch leaf springs...
Are the axles the same?? How much of the mightyboy and hatch rear setups are interchangeable??
Maybe the axle might be heavier, so that could help somehow??
Thats just my experience with the hatch leaf springs...
Are the axles the same?? How much of the mightyboy and hatch rear setups are interchangeable??
Maybe the axle might be heavier, so that could help somehow??
The whole setup is pretty much identical except that the Hatch has an extra set of springs, the axle and shackles etc are all the same.
There is also a 5mm discrepency between brake shoes too, but that is irrelevant to this discussion.
I still say that the Hatch leaves would have to make an improvement to the standard MB setup if the front has been lowered with uprated springs. Having the front hard and the rear soft would make for obvious handling issues.
In my case the Hatch gear won't be fitted until after the new rims and tyres go on. Who knows, that might make the positive change I'm looking for without having to change the whole rear end over.
There is also a 5mm discrepency between brake shoes too, but that is irrelevant to this discussion.
I still say that the Hatch leaves would have to make an improvement to the standard MB setup if the front has been lowered with uprated springs. Having the front hard and the rear soft would make for obvious handling issues.
In my case the Hatch gear won't be fitted until after the new rims and tyres go on. Who knows, that might make the positive change I'm looking for without having to change the whole rear end over.
F8B EFI turbo - Three pots and a snail.