It's funny you say that, Col, because you never see BMW, Mercedes, Citroen, Renault, Peugot, Saab, Volvo or any other European manufacturer releasing a "Series 2" of every model in which they fix all their blatantly stupid fuckups like say... FORD? Or HOLDEN?
Incidently, you don't see any of them using engines with bores dating back to the early 1950's, and you certainly don't see them persisting with an outdated, noisy, lumbering pushrod engine which they keep bolting things up to in order to stay abreast with their local competitors.
Do you?
Addition of the Smart to Klass
[url=http://www.tamon.org/?page=owners&id=10][img]http://www.tamon.org/forum/images/ute_specs.gif[/img][/url]
Lots of info on the UK Smart site
http://www.thesmart.co.uk/index.html
I think I prefer the roadster version
http://www.thesmart.co.uk/index.html
I think I prefer the roadster version
Yeah, if you weren't the one writing the cheque for it. 
Talk about over-priced!
I'd go and by a 2nd-hand Cappa' long before one of those things...
Talk about over-priced!I'd go and by a 2nd-hand Cappa' long before one of those things...
[url=http://www.tamon.org/?page=owners&id=10][img]http://www.tamon.org/forum/images/ute_specs.gif[/img][/url]
No question - they're over priced here in Oz. But then they have the same quirky qualities as do the mightyboy & cars like the Fiat bambino (which was my other choice when I was buying this current car) Luve em... (but glad I got the boy instead)
The cappa (for me) looks too much like a real sports car, and therefore would be compared to the real thing. I'd imagine a mx5 would probably offer far more?
The cappa (for me) looks too much like a real sports car, and therefore would be compared to the real thing. I'd imagine a mx5 would probably offer far more?
Yep, I was seriously looking at the Smart Roadster to replace my WRX next year but I'm not paying that much for a car of that size. The Copen is nearly $10K cheaper and I still think they are overpriced as well. I'll be able to buy a BMW 1 series for around the same price as a Smart Roadster.
JJ
[img]http://www.saberknights.com/members/jj/officespace.gif[/img]
[img]http://www.saberknights.com/members/jj/officespace.gif[/img]
They did do some serious miles of testing in all terrains in the USA before the official release including desert, mud, ice and snow so I don't think that'll be an issue. They are designed as a small city car you can take out on the weekend for a fang in the hills. It is exactly the sort of car I am looking for, small, RWD, quick, relatively fuel efficient and I personally like the styling. The only problem for me is the price.
The Copen on the other hand is around the price I'd pay for the Smart but I think it's butt ugly. The only things going for it are the automatic hardtop and the fact they have been making small turbo engines for some time. I really can't see why anyone would want a FWD sports car.
You would definitely be better off going for the MX-5 and paying the few grand extra over the Smart but although I can appreciate them I have never liked the Mazda.
Anyway, I still have another year to wait for something else.
The Copen on the other hand is around the price I'd pay for the Smart but I think it's butt ugly. The only things going for it are the automatic hardtop and the fact they have been making small turbo engines for some time. I really can't see why anyone would want a FWD sports car.
You would definitely be better off going for the MX-5 and paying the few grand extra over the Smart but although I can appreciate them I have never liked the Mazda.
Anyway, I still have another year to wait for something else.
JJ
[img]http://www.saberknights.com/members/jj/officespace.gif[/img]
[img]http://www.saberknights.com/members/jj/officespace.gif[/img]
Fritz said:
The MX-5 seems to hold it's value pretty well, and given you could pick up a Cappa for half the price of a 2nd-hand MX-5, with the added exhilaration of turbo spool and handling that only a Kei-car could deliver, I know which I'd choose.
Colin said:
I reckon the Copen's aren't a bad thing... I've seen a couple in the flesh now and they come off much better than they do in photographs - much that can be said the same for MightyBoy's. Once their value diminishes (and with the present levels of flak being copped that shouldn't be long) I reckon I could handle putting money down on one...
I think you'll find that, upon closer inspection, the Cappucino is a sports car, not just a little car made to look like a sports car.The cappa (for me) looks too much like a real sports car, and therefore would be compared to the real thing. I'd imagine a mx5 would probably offer far more?
The MX-5 seems to hold it's value pretty well, and given you could pick up a Cappa for half the price of a 2nd-hand MX-5, with the added exhilaration of turbo spool and handling that only a Kei-car could deliver, I know which I'd choose.
Colin said:
Australian conditions of Australian mechanics?one of the major problems with them is their built for european conditions australian conditions are much more demanding
I reckon the Copen's aren't a bad thing... I've seen a couple in the flesh now and they come off much better than they do in photographs - much that can be said the same for MightyBoy's. Once their value diminishes (and with the present levels of flak being copped that shouldn't be long) I reckon I could handle putting money down on one...
[url=http://www.tamon.org/?page=owners&id=10][img]http://www.tamon.org/forum/images/ute_specs.gif[/img][/url]
I dont know exactly how the import system works, but I'd be inclined to try to get a s/h smart from the UK. (but then I know people over there who could import it for me). I looked em up & they start from about 4500 pounds for a 99 model. Not too bad for a very distinctive car...
Second hand tubo 660 or n/a 1.8 or 2.0 (?)
I reckon the mx5 would generally have had an easier life.
I guess that's why the asre has dropped out of the s/h wrx market.
Second hand tubo 660 or n/a 1.8 or 2.0 (?)
I reckon the mx5 would generally have had an easier life.
I guess that's why the asre has dropped out of the s/h wrx market.
Fritz said:
Sufficed to say, if I were in the market for one, I'm the kind of anal-retentive bastard that would quite seriously look at giving the engine a full overhaul on arrival anyway so it's not something I'd be worry about.
You do bring up a valueable point there, however everything I've read has lead me to believe that they are a well-built engine and most of those that come into Australia seem to be in pretty good nick.Second hand tubo 660 or n/a 1.8 or 2.0 (?)
I reckon the mx5 would generally have had an easier life.
I guess that's why the asre has dropped out of the s/h wrx market.
Sufficed to say, if I were in the market for one, I'm the kind of anal-retentive bastard that would quite seriously look at giving the engine a full overhaul on arrival anyway so it's not something I'd be worry about.
[url=http://www.tamon.org/?page=owners&id=10][img]http://www.tamon.org/forum/images/ute_specs.gif[/img][/url]
MORE BEER! 
Hate to burst a perception bubble, but MX5's are no where near double the price of a cappa.
Cappa's are still about 15k here 2nd hand... A used MX5 of the same year (1992-1997) will set you back between 12k and 22k depending on kms and specific year.
Also remember that MX5's first began production in 1989... that means you can bring them in under the 15yr import rule and have one on Australian roads with less than 100,000kms for about $8,000.
Makes the choice of a cappa seem like one for die-hards only.
Cappa's are still about 15k here 2nd hand... A used MX5 of the same year (1992-1997) will set you back between 12k and 22k depending on kms and specific year.
Also remember that MX5's first began production in 1989... that means you can bring them in under the 15yr import rule and have one on Australian roads with less than 100,000kms for about $8,000.
Makes the choice of a cappa seem like one for die-hards only.
Very good Col. Please note however that I have had no interest at all in any of the Smart's other than the roadster. That's a pretty good idea though, a cross between a 4WD and the Smart would attract the yuppy set wouldn't you think! Most of them either drive little European cars or big 4WD's.
Anyhow, I do agree the MX-5 is a good car, just not for me...ever!
And as for the 15 year rule why bother with an MX-5 when you can get a low cost Porsche or Ferrari under the same rule. Heaps of them coming into the country now and the prices are pretty good too. Maybe a bit more than you'd get an MX-5 for admittedly.
Prices of the Copen won't come down much in the second hand market because they are a limited run each year and hand built. I expect they will hold their value quite well even if they are FWD.
Anyhow, I do agree the MX-5 is a good car, just not for me...ever!
And as for the 15 year rule why bother with an MX-5 when you can get a low cost Porsche or Ferrari under the same rule. Heaps of them coming into the country now and the prices are pretty good too. Maybe a bit more than you'd get an MX-5 for admittedly.
Prices of the Copen won't come down much in the second hand market because they are a limited run each year and hand built. I expect they will hold their value quite well even if they are FWD.
JJ
[img]http://www.saberknights.com/members/jj/officespace.gif[/img]
[img]http://www.saberknights.com/members/jj/officespace.gif[/img]
For the benefit of those who couldn't be arsed copying and pasting Colin's image URL...
I see where you're coming from, Kei. I guess just as a matter of personal taste, I think the early 90's MX-5s look and perform like sh!t, and most that I've come across have in excess of 130,000kms on them for up to $20,000 while Cappa's with 70,000kms fetch $17,000.
Toss me a Cappa anyday. Regardless of price!
I see where you're coming from, Kei. I guess just as a matter of personal taste, I think the early 90's MX-5s look and perform like sh!t, and most that I've come across have in excess of 130,000kms on them for up to $20,000 while Cappa's with 70,000kms fetch $17,000.
Toss me a Cappa anyday. Regardless of price!
[url=http://www.tamon.org/?page=owners&id=10][img]http://www.tamon.org/forum/images/ute_specs.gif[/img][/url]