Camshaft & Crankshaft Alignment

[stevan_istheman]

The best advice is once you've gone through and put the lot together, just wind it over a few times by hand to make sure everything is free and the dizzy spins to number one when you're on TDC for the first cylinder...
If all else fails.. we might have to have "the first official TAMON engine building day" or something like that...
I've done a couple F8B's and swapped heads on F5A's and it's not that difficult.

[ToranaGuy]

These little F5a & F8b's are some of the easiest engines I've ever worked on.

A Tamon engine building day would be cool, especially if someone web casts it to the rest of us!

Easy way to tell if your on TDC on compression stroke is to wind the engine over by hand & watch the intake valve.... Not too long after it closes you will find your marker on the crank pulley is pointing up.

Otherwise, if your on the workbench, bolt up the flywheel, spin engine until getting to the 10 Deg before TDC mark, then you know where you are in the stroke & you can install your dizzy.

Don't forget to put some oil in hole before you fit the dizzy!

Cheers

ToranaGuy

[Billie]

Thanks everyone, once head gasket and things come i'll see how i go.

That'd be awesome. To bad theres more people in vic and nsw, not many people in brisbane.

I think i understand, i printed off the manual today, took awhile and binded it up.

Just welded my new gearstick togeather, its really short so i can put a normal shift boot on it, bit of a stecth to reach haha.

[Billie]

Hey, got the parts today, finally. What i did was, put head back on with new head gasket, put timing belt on, aligned crank and cam with the dots. Aligned flyweel to 7 degrees before tdc. made sure cylinder one rockers werent on the came, lose i assume that means? Then put the rotor in dizzy on the spot it said to, put dizzt in and tightened up. Is that right? What do i do now?

Thanks.

[ike849]

yes cylinder1 at TDC compression stroke will have the rockers lose on the cam.

you should assemble everything at TDC!!

check your cam timing again (ie. TDC and both crank and cam pulleys alligned), put the dizzy in at TDC, rotate the crank 2 rotations to check all alignments.

Once together get a timing light, start the engine and then adjust dizzy so that it fires at 7degrees BTDC...

drive away and have fun

[Billie]

I put it in at 7 degrees before tdc, not at tdc, thr dizzy that is, rotated it a few times, all lines line up, this engine has a normal loooking timing gear, no f8a stuff here lol. Just going to get it back in car, does anyone know how to use a timing light? I'v seen it used but never done it myself.

[Karu]

I assume you know how to wire it up. Start engine and aim timing light at the hole in the bellhousing on the flywhell. With the distributor bolt slackened turn the distributor slightly one way or other until the mark on the bellhousing lines up with where you know 7deg TDC is. Tighten distirbutor and away you go. First of all the points have to be correct before attempting the timing. It does concern me though that you lined the crank at 7deg TDC. It really should be TDC.

[ToranaGuy]

A quick tip is to paint or mark the timing mark on the flywheel (or balancer on some cars), IE 7 Deg before TDC if that's what your engine should be firing at, with either white paint, nail polish or even white out.

Then when you point the timing gun at the marks, the white is so much easier to see & check if the light is hitting the correct timing mark.

Happy near year guys & girls.

Cheers

ToranaGuy

[Billie]

Karu, i printed out the manual and said to put timing belt on as normal, like tdc then when putting dizzy in, make sure cylinder one wasnt on cam, when it was at 7 degrees before tdc, put rotor in then slide dizzy in. And i didnt know how to use it, i sore it being done, but when your on work experience, they have you doing oil changes and cleaning all day.

[Karu]

Typical of employers to use excited school kids who are passionate about learning what they want to learn as nothing more than cheap slaves. And when the excited student walks away disillusioned the employer then complains that it is so hard to find good employees. If you are doing it correctly, and from what you say it seems you are, then that employer missed out on a great apprentice. And all because he couldn't see past his opportunity to have his workshop cleaned on the cheap.

[Billie]

Oh, i wasn't at school, it was work placement, not work experience, part of tafe course lol. The guy was a dick, he sat in his office most of the day, i serviced the cars, checked brakes, told him if they needed machining and new pads and so on, on my last week, i said my hours are up, he sed ok, that was all, i ddi 12 weeks there. Other guys at tafe got paid and got at least a thank you, he was our mechanic, now he isen't, since i do most of the car stuff, unless its something i cant do, like using a timing gun. About to put engine back in, what i'v done some of you might like, some might not, but i think it looks cool, i'll take a pic and upload to my gallery if anyone wants to have a look tonight, tell me what you think if you do. Took awhile to do. Doing the clutch at the moment, it seems a shame to have it all out and not replace clutch, since its probaly half worn, but i dont have the money to buy a new one more important things for it to go on, shouldnt of my money on the sound system lol.

Thanks guys, your help is much appreciated.

[ToranaGuy]

It really is a pitty that work placement / experience guys & girls generally don't get the whole good work experience that they should, and i'm sure that affects their whole view on working on a sub concious level.

That's why when i couldn't get enough work exp to satisfy my school in the I.T sector, i did 2 weeks at a car wreckers, that didn't only just wreck car's, they also do mechanical repairs, rebuild parts like gearboxes, engines & diffs as well & so on. I got my hands very dirty learning how to do many different jobs on car's, the owner also shown me how to use some common tools correctly, and also shown me the admin side to what we were doing. I learnt a lot of skills that are relevant no matter what job your doing, and it was a great experience.

The I.T placement i did on the other hand had me doing such mundane tasks & not learning anything relevant at all, it was really disappointing.

I had to report back to the school how my work experience went, and the wreckers got a great report while the computer shop got a lousy report, and even tho i still work in I.T today, i'm greatful for my experience at the wreckers, where i still frequently go, picking up parts & helping them with their I.T.

nova_66, i hope that even tho you may not have learnt all that you desired, if you look at the overall experience i hope you can say that at least you learnt how not to run a business.

Best bosses i've ever had have all been hands on guys who will get their hands dirty in the work whenever required. Lead by example, and for a boss to understand their workforce they should be able to do any of the jobs their workers are doing.

It sounds like you have made good strides in your mechanical abilities, as this thread & your others have evolved, and trust me, you will get better as time goes on. Just keep asking questions & working at it mate!

Cheers

ToranaGuy

[ike849]

to answer your question on how to use a timing light. there are 2 kinds, one that uses the car battery for power and the other that has it's own batteries for power.

The cheaper ones use the car battery for power and it's as simple as hooking up the black alligator clip to the negative terminal and the red alligator clip to the positive terminal...

the other lead out of the timing gun is the pick up sensor it will either be a magnetic induction style one that needs to be hooked over cylinder1's HT lead, or a piggy back style that needs to plug into the cylinder1's spark plug and then the HT lead plugs into...

check the points gap is correct and start the engine with no extra electrical loads on (ie. stereo's and fans), set the idle to the right speed and make sure the choke is completely off.

Now aim the timing gun at the flywheel inspection hole and pull the trigger, it will flash every time cylinder1 fires. Undo the locking bolt on the dizzy and rotate it left or right until the flash 'lines up' the timing mark next to the flywheel with the 7degree mark on the flywheel.

CAREFULLY tighten the dizzy lock bolt and I always gives it a quick rev and then check the timing again (the dizzy lock bolt usually alters the timing slightly when you do it up). Adjust the idle if it is too fast or slow to the correct speed and check timing again.

I also take back what I said about the dizzy being inserted at TDC, the manual states as you did; insert it once 7degrees BTDC is lined up....

[Billie]

Thanks torana guy, I have learnt more from this forum then i did doing work placement, he had me lifting guards and doors from old corollas around the corner, there were about 20 doors and guards, and a few hatches, it was about 35 derees, nearly calapsed. I also helped him with computer problems, and corrected him a few times, which he really didnt like. He told a guy buying a suzuki super carry was a bad idea, even after the dude sed he wanted it for the looks, not practicality. He did the same when i asked about buying a mighty boy, he sed parts would be way more expensive than say a corolla, which he loves, he owns about 10. His corolla discs were 120 each, mine 70, same with all other components. I'm not sure what i want to do now, start an apprentiship, or get a job, or do another course at tafe, like body works or diesel fitter. Got the holidays to work it out anyway.

[ToranaGuy]

Most mechanics i know prefer diesel over petrol, they claim it's easier to work on due to size & less clutter around the engine, but that's rapidly changing with computer controlled diesel engines nowadays.

Starting an apprenticeship might seem crappy now, and a lot of 1st year guys don't get to do too much, but it will be worth it at the end. A mate of mine has only just started his 1st year as a diesel mech, but he is lucky, he has my other mate as his main teacher in the workshop, so he gets to be pretty hands on when in the workshop, but he does some odd jobs like feeding the bosses chickens at the back of the depot & so on.

Oh yeah, follow Ike's instructions about the timing light, they are pretty easy to use. If you were close to me i'd say pop on over & i'll show you how it's done. I shown my next door neighbours son, a 1st year apprentice diesel mech how to use when when he rebuilt his engine in his XF ute.

Cheers

ToranaGuy