So, I bought a Suzuki - new user

[Lil' red ute]

no one would ever know unless you told them.
it bolts in perfect like it was meant to be in there and is safe, i dont see any problems

But, that's the problem right there - you have to tell "them" that the engine has been changed. The data plate states "F5A" as engine type, fitting something that is NOT an F5A will mean that questions are asked. As for "safe", I had a little chuckle there.

If you did not say anything (like what has been done with my car already) and then had an accident your claim could be denied (I have made a few claims over the years and have had two held up for nearly six months for something a lot less significant than a non-legal engine change). There's another big problem...

Anyway, this thread would have been much more productive if my questions had of been answered, I was after actual information regarding two things and instead we ended up off topic with a heap of opinions that have no basis on fact; but, as per earlier, "mates of mates".

W

[Brayden]

Anyway, this thread would have been much more productive if my questions had of been answered, I was after actual information regarding two things and instead we ended up off topic with a heap of opinions that have no basis on fact; but, as per earlier, "mates of mates".

Welcome to the internet.
To answer your questions in the most straightforward manner possible:

1. No I haven't ever encountered the problem you've described. Then again I've never tried testing the design of ACL head gaskets by putting a fist full of dirt in the radiator either.

2. Assuming you have the complete F5A and box the downgrade should not cause you any problems. Both F8B and F5A share all the same engine mounts, plugs, etc.

[mowog]

well one dead giveaway is the big 'f8' cast into the engine block just above the engine number.
one hassle you could have is sometimes the speedo cable end where it goes into the gearbox is different, some have male end some have female.

[Lil' red ute]

[quote="Brayden"
1. No I haven't ever encountered the problem you've described. Then again I've never tried testing the design of ACL head gaskets by putting a fist full of dirt in the radiator either.

2. Assuming you have the complete F5A and box the downgrade should not cause you any problems. Both F8B and F5A share all the same engine mounts, plugs, etc.[/quote]

"fist full of dirt" I've seen similar deposits in many types of vehicles. Crud does build up over time when a corrosion inhibitor is not used. I have never seen it so severely concentrated in one spot - hence the questions regarding other's experiences with the F5A. All good - I have made some progress there.

For the "back to 543" part - no assumptions needed - I have an F5A long motor. No gearbox. I have no idea what gearbox is in it at the moment, or what inlet manifold, carb, etc... I have done enough research now to know that the F5A will bolt to the F8B gearbox (if that is what it is), and the manifolds can "interchange". I also understand that these are not ideal scenarios; but, again, it might still have the F5A box and manifold / carb.

W

[Tez]

Hi Will.
I hear what you're saying, and in essence, you're correct, however I would caution against fitting an F8B box up to an F5A... People go the other way - an F5A box on an F8B, and persevere with high revs - the F8B box has a lower final drive ratio to suit the larger engine than the F5A box. If you were to bolt the 8B box onto a 5A motor, I think you'd struggle with very poor performance.
Quite possibly the box you have is from an F5A (but just as likely to be an F8B box) - unfortunately, there is no firm method from an external examination to determine one from the other - only a count of the input-to-output turns will truly identify one box from the other. (I can't remember the number of turns for the respective boxes just at the moment). Someone else might chime in with the exact output ratios of the two boxes for you.
If you find it's an F8B box and you're determined to go with the F5A transplant then I'm sure there are F5A boxes about, that would be fairly easy to come by via this forum. Offloading the F8B box couldn't be easier if that's what you would want to do. (Personally, knowing how rare they are becoming - I'd keep it).

[Lil' red ute]

Hi Will.
I hear what you're saying, and in essence, you're correct, however I would caution against fitting an F8B box up to an F5A...

Yep... "not ideal" was my way of covering that.

I actually find it quite strange that Suzuki (being a Jap company) did not have a definite ID tag (or similar) on the gearboxes. This is back before paper stickers were used, so there should be a nice metal tag under a bolt; or, at worst, an aluminium sticker. But, obviously not for some reason.

W

[KEVIN]

At the start of this thread you say it's automatic, if it is an F8B transmission it will be seriously sluggish due to the taller final drive ratio with the F5A. For what it's worth :- The smaller water passages in the head are to equalize the temperature & prevent steam build up, the larger holes are the main coolant flow, the sediment & crud will always accumulate in the smaller passages (That's just the way it is) creating hotspots & causing head gasket problems. The use of coolant & periodic flushing of the cooling system is the way to prevent this. The use of a custom made(Expensive) gasket really seems like trying to reinvent the wheel to fix a problem created elsewhere. Genuine & aftermarket headgaskets have been doing the job for 30 years without too many problems. Check the head for warpage and the block deck for trueness before reassembly & flush all the crap out - Best of luck

[Tez]

Ok. So I fished through the various .pdf manuals I have here, and found the respective tables for gearbox ratios.
Then screen-dumped and combined into one image... see below.
Hope it's of use...

[Lil' red ute]

Ok. So I fished through the various .pdf manuals I have here, and found the respective tables for gearbox ratios.
Then screen-dumped and combined into one image... see below.
Hope it's of use...

Ok, thanks. Does anyone know the difference for the auto? It would be a safe bet that they would be in the same ball-park as the manual.

W

[Lil' red ute]

The smaller water passages in the head are to equalize the temperature & prevent steam build up, the larger holes are the main coolant flow, the sediment & crud will always accumulate in the smaller passages (That's just the way it is) creating hotspots & causing head gasket problems. The use of coolant & periodic flushing of the cooling system is the way to prevent this. The use of a custom made(Expensive) gasket really seems like trying to reinvent the wheel to fix a problem created elsewhere. Genuine & aftermarket headgaskets have been doing the job for 30 years without too many problems.

Here's the thing though - the gaskets DON"T do the job on the F5A. Check the design on an F8B - which has essentially the same reverse-flow "pocket" around #1 intake and the gaskets are totally different. Also, there is an extreme hot spot on #1 exhaust on an F5A, but not an F8B due to different gasket design. So, the problem is not "elsewhere" - it IS the head gasket design.

Custom made gaskets are not that expensive. I should be getting final costings tomorrow. It's not re-inventing the wheel when I am making an F8B style gasket to suit an F5A.

W

[KEVIN]

Sounds like your not really looking for help or advice cos you know all the answers so i will leave you to it.

[Lil' red ute]

Sounds like your not really looking for help or advice cos you know all the answers so i will leave you to it.

No prob, thanks for the heads-up.

I am looking for help and advice, just can't handle incorrect info. Obviously you can't handle being called on giving incorrect info. The following is from the forum rules:

"If someone asks a question, and you are not confident you know the answer, then refrain from posting and let a more qualified person answer it. This is especially important with regards to technical enquiries, as any incorrect information you post may cause harm or injury to others."

The advice that some people give is no better than what is to be expected from a first year apprentice. Even better is your general statement concerning 30 years of head gaskets - sorry master, did you design all of the gaskets over the past 30 years and now you are upset as someone has questioned the effectiveness of one design over another? Of the ten F5A gaskets I have looked at over the past week, there have been five different cooling passage designs - are they all right, or all wrong?? Yep, I did all that first hand research, and yet I still ask for advice. Maybe I should just listen to your BS and pull my head in?

I am far from knowing all the answers, hence me asking SPECIFIC technical questions about an F5A vs F8B on a Mighty Boy forum!! Even though this is my first Suzuki, and am new to this forum that does not mean I am new to the whole concept of cars, mechanics or the internet. Don't worry, I highly doubt I will be asking questions anymore; as above, I cannot handle incorrect information.

But, I guess I do know a little more than you though - your claim that coolant will stop crud build-up is a shining example of how much you don't know. "Coolant" has the same chance of stopping crud and corrosion as plain water does. Just as well you decided to "leave me to it" - there is a chance someone might read your posts and think you are actually providing answers.

W

[Brayden]

The advice that some people give is no better than what is to be expected from a first year apprentice.

The majority of people on this forum are enthusiasts, not mechanics. The few technical experts we are lucky enough to have are usually elsewhere doing amazing things (or making a living) and don't have a lot of time to contribute.

Generally speaking if you're hoping to find specific and technically accurate information on any internet forum you're going to have to wade through plenty of shit to find it.

[Bear351c]

So, do you want advice? Anyone who offers it, gets a reply that is rude and disrespectful.
I doubt anyone here has worked in R&D at the ACL gasket company. Maybe you should direct your questions to them?

[mowog]

i had an insurance claim rejected because i had not notified them of an engine change although it was an identical motor. they claimed it could be a stolen motor.
as for coolant, i gather we are wasting our money using the green stuff as plain water is just as good. so why do all manufacturers i know of recommend a coolant?