Hey guys, i picked up a dirt cheap F5A the other day, its in immaculate condition, DOHC Turbo, EFI with 5-speed. I'm dropping it into a daihatsu handivan that is my project car.
Anyway, We need 100hp, and then to run 50hp of nitrous to achieve the 1/4 mile time we want (12's). So basically, ive come up with an idea to get this power. Being already 47kw we're half way to 100hp atw, so i figure exhaust, intake, and boost is the best mix.
I'm going with a twincharger setup (turbo + S/C), using the stock turbo which will run around 10psi, and a SC12 supercharger to run another 10psi.
What i need to know is:
1. Where can i get parts such as forged pistons and rods?
2. Where can i get some very lumpy cams for the motor?
3. Will 20psi, cams, intake and exhaust get me the power i want?
4. Will the stock turbo run at 10psi easily? (it runs 7psi already i hear)
Worst case scenario we'll run 75hp of nitrous, but will this engine handle much nitrous?
F5A Questions
Sorry if this offends but I can't quite tell if this post is serious or not. 
I know a bloke with a drag Swift running 28PSI and over 300hp ATW who is pulling 11.5's on street tyres, so I don't think 100hp will quite cut it for a 12. (The Swift in question weighs not much more than a stock Handi)
Can you achieve 100hp at the wheels with an F5A? You could go close, but not without fully forged internals (as you mentioned) and a bullshit amount of boost, plus a whole mess of other go fast bits.
If you are serious (and have the cash to burn) then the only place you'll get the parts you want will be directly from SuzukiSport. Instead of your twin-charged idea I would be looking at a Garrett GT15 turbo to give you the boost you need. I'd also be suggesting that you'd need nitrous for the motor and an extra jet to spool the turbo.
Lets not forget the driveline too, because with 100hp at the wheels you will smash the diff hemisphere and/or gearset after a couple of launches. A custom LSD and strengthened gearbox will be needed. Standard F5A boxes are practically made of glass and notorios for breaking.
All things considered I'd say there are easier and cheaper ways to get the performance you need.
P.S. Lumpy (long duration) cams are the LAST thing you need for a high performance turbocharged motor.
I know a bloke with a drag Swift running 28PSI and over 300hp ATW who is pulling 11.5's on street tyres, so I don't think 100hp will quite cut it for a 12. (The Swift in question weighs not much more than a stock Handi)
Can you achieve 100hp at the wheels with an F5A? You could go close, but not without fully forged internals (as you mentioned) and a bullshit amount of boost, plus a whole mess of other go fast bits.
If you are serious (and have the cash to burn) then the only place you'll get the parts you want will be directly from SuzukiSport. Instead of your twin-charged idea I would be looking at a Garrett GT15 turbo to give you the boost you need. I'd also be suggesting that you'd need nitrous for the motor and an extra jet to spool the turbo.
Lets not forget the driveline too, because with 100hp at the wheels you will smash the diff hemisphere and/or gearset after a couple of launches. A custom LSD and strengthened gearbox will be needed. Standard F5A boxes are practically made of glass and notorios for breaking.
All things considered I'd say there are easier and cheaper ways to get the performance you need.
P.S. Lumpy (long duration) cams are the LAST thing you need for a high performance turbocharged motor.
F8B EFI turbo - Three pots and a snail.
-
Goofy[HSK]
- Posts: 630
- Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:33 pm
- Location: South Australia
- Contact:
I don't believe Suzuki sport have any forged items left for F5A;s
( http://www.suzukisport.com/ss_racing/ssr_index.html )
( http://www.suzukisport.com/ss_racing/ssr_index.html )
'89 Alto Works RS/R - Awaiting: Paint, Windscreen, Compliance, Lottery
'89 Alto Works RS/R - Complied, Registrable, Awaiting Paint, Engine not running
www.hillsidekonnection.com
'89 Alto Works RS/R - Complied, Registrable, Awaiting Paint, Engine not running
www.hillsidekonnection.com
Nah I wouldn't suspect they'd still carry F5A bits, but K6A parts *might* be adaptable. If they're not, then perhaps Weisco may have some suitable pistons, but the rods would then be a problem.
F8B EFI turbo - Three pots and a snail.
150hp is all thats required for the handi to get into the 12's if we can get adequate traction. It weighs roughly 450kg now with the motor weight added, it has been completely stripped and ive done alot of weight reductions. Slicks will ofcourse be used, and a good aftermarket computer system to ensure boost and nitrous will be rising at a rate that ensures maximum traction.
I have a ford capri turbo, and got it to run a 12.9, and it weighs around 1100kg, and has well under 300hp and thats including nitrous. Suspension and tyres play a very large part, and being a basically strip only car the suspension system can be perfectly suited to the 1/4 mile.
As for gearboxes, ive been told i can pick them up for around $80 a pop, so blowing a few doesnt bother me, as long as we get 2-3 runs out of each. However if possible it would be good to build a strong gearbox to run with the motor.
As for the cam, it plays a rather large role. If we can get the longest duration camshafts possible without any overlap then it should give us at least 10hp.
Thanks mate.
I have a ford capri turbo, and got it to run a 12.9, and it weighs around 1100kg, and has well under 300hp and thats including nitrous. Suspension and tyres play a very large part, and being a basically strip only car the suspension system can be perfectly suited to the 1/4 mile.
As for gearboxes, ive been told i can pick them up for around $80 a pop, so blowing a few doesnt bother me, as long as we get 2-3 runs out of each. However if possible it would be good to build a strong gearbox to run with the motor.
As for the cam, it plays a rather large role. If we can get the longest duration camshafts possible without any overlap then it should give us at least 10hp.
Thanks mate.
I'd like to know where you can get a 5 speed F5A box for $80, because I'd buy 10 - seriously! The last time I saw one for sale it was about $500 with shafts and shifter assembly.
Your Capri runs 12.9... RWD. Whole different kettle of fish. Traction in a FWD car is very difficult to get, especially when you factor light body weight and axle tramp, which is a complete gearbox and engine mount killer. Mate you certainly have got a mountain to climb!
You are spot on with the cams though, maximum duration without overlap - which on an F5A is sweet FA more than stock.
Your first post asked for info on where to get "very lumpy cams", hense my earlier response.
Personally I think you'd be better off with a Daihatsu Charade CB70 GTTi engine and gearbox if you want to make the whole thing a lot easier on yourself, and your hip pocket.
With 74kw stock and almost double the cubic capacity, you'd be in front by a mile.
Your Capri runs 12.9... RWD. Whole different kettle of fish. Traction in a FWD car is very difficult to get, especially when you factor light body weight and axle tramp, which is a complete gearbox and engine mount killer. Mate you certainly have got a mountain to climb!
You are spot on with the cams though, maximum duration without overlap - which on an F5A is sweet FA more than stock.
Your first post asked for info on where to get "very lumpy cams", hense my earlier response.Personally I think you'd be better off with a Daihatsu Charade CB70 GTTi engine and gearbox if you want to make the whole thing a lot easier on yourself, and your hip pocket.
With 74kw stock and almost double the cubic capacity, you'd be in front by a mile.
F8B EFI turbo - Three pots and a snail.
The capri is FWD - its one of the early 90's convertible models. And yes, you're definitely right about a CB70 being easier to get the power, but we have about an inch clearance in every single direcion with the alto motor, so i couldnt see it fitting (that engine was actually our first preference) but we picked up the alto motor in perfect nick, with gearbox + shifter and everything for a measly $325, so we couldnt go past it, we then got it home thinking it'd have heaps of room and then realised our hopes of using a charade motor were totally dreaming in the first place.Brayden wrote:I'd like to know where you can get a 5 speed F5A box for $80, because I'd buy 10 - seriously! The last time I saw one for sale it was about $500 with shafts and shifter assembly.
Your Capri runs 12.9... RWD. Whole different kettle of fish. Traction in a FWD car is very difficult to get, especially when you factor light body weight and axle tramp, which is a complete gearbox and engine mount killer. Mate you certainly have got a mountain to climb!
You are spot on with the cams though, maximum duration without overlap - which on an F5A is sweet FA more than stock.
Personally I think you'd be better off with a Daihatsu Charade CB70 GTTi engine and gearbox if you want to make the whole thing a lot easier on yourself, and your hip pocket.
With 74kw stock and almost double the cubic capacity, you'd be in front by a mile.
A couple of guys with MB's have exchanged their F5As with CB70s, so I don't think there's any reason you couldn't get one in a Handi.
Sorry about the comment on the Capri, I assumed you were talking about n oldschool version.
Sorry about the comment on the Capri, I assumed you were talking about n oldschool version.
F8B EFI turbo - Three pots and a snail.
Nar thats alright mate, most quick capri's are the oldschools. I think you may be right in that the CB70 isnt much bigger, i've just been out and checked out the F5A, and its very physically large considering its small displacement. I compared it with the handi engine which left alot of room in the engine bay, and it was 660cc, so yeh the CB may be around the same size and worth looking into.Brayden wrote:A couple of guys with MB's have exchanged their F5As with CB70s, so I don't think there's any reason you couldn't get one in a Handi.
Sorry about the comment on the Capri, I assumed you were talking about n oldschool version.
Definately mate, no disrespect to Suzuki but the CB70 is just an awesome motor, capable of handling 20+ PSI on stock internals!
F8B EFI turbo - Three pots and a snail.